NIGHTWINGING IT
A few thoughts as I continue to work ahead on Nightwing. I was originally given the book for four issues - a fill-in actually - but now that I'm on it for a longer run I've started to make some changes in the title that I'm really pleased with and wanted to share with you.The first thing I wanted when I got the fill-in was to address Dick Grayson's detective and acrobatic skills. Since Wing is human, you can't suddenly have him fly or do things outside the realm of possibilities. Dick was a natural born athlete before he ever met Batman, and I very much wanted to show him doing things nobody else in the DCU could do, certainly not with such command and ease. Secondly, Robin was trained by Batman to be a detective, and I wanted to show how good he could be. I think my first story arc accomplished both.
The next thing I wanted was to showcase Wing's fighting prowess as well as his leadership capabilities and to begin to set up a new cast of characters. Dick was moved to New York before I got on the book but since back in the Titans days I always had him in that city, it felt right to leave him there. Not only that but I knew New York well, which I felt could add real flavor to the book. Much as I love Metropolis and Gotham, and created Bethlehem (Bedlam), my own fictional city for the comic The Man Called A-X, I've always had a fondness for real cities in my comics. So for the present, New York stays.
But being in New York meant bringing in a new cast of friends and foes. Since I didn't want to set up a super romance right away - Dick had been falling into bed a bit too quickly for my taste - I wanted him to find some female friends, not just lovers. At least not immediately. That would come soon enough, I knew. I also wanted to introduce him to a few new male friends. But friends to Dick Grayson, not just to Nightwing. Someone a guy like Dick could go out for a drink with. That's already been started although most readers don't know it yet. More than one character introduced to the series will be returning on a more regular basis although others who look like they were supposed to keep coming back, won't be. That's another thing I wanted to do; not let the reader know in advance where I'm going. We need to keep some surprises, after all.
Like our first arc, our second arc introduces some new villains. I like the idea of providing Nightwing with his own rogue's gallery, although some better known DCU characters will appear from time to time. The characters of Bride and Groom are intended to push Nightwing to the brink and maybe beyond. Something happens in our second B&G issue - on sale in a week or so - that I think is going to affect Nightwing for a long, long time to come. And because of what happens, there is definitely going to be long term character changes and ramifications that will become even more apparent when artist Jamal Igle and I begin our third arc.
Jamal had a character idea for a villain and I had a storyline I wanted to tell, about a missing year in Dick's life and how that has affected so many of his decisions and attitudes since then. We will introduce several new characters in that arc as well as bring back a particular favorite I'd done before, long ago. Our third arc will push Nightwing further than we've ever seen. We're not changing him as a character so much as letting him walk the edge and see which way he teeters.
The trick to Nightwing is giving him purpose and drive. Because the murder of his parents was resolved quickly he never developed the rigid obsession that has motivated Batman. His motivation comes from the pursuit of justice. But maybe something happened between the last days of the first run of Teen Titans when he disbanded that group for reasons we will learn, and the first issue of the New Teen Titans where he returned to the fold more grown up and less a kid sidekick than he ever had been before. Coincidentally, it's also a year where he wasn't with Batman 7/27. Something changed him then, and now that something has returned. And as I say, if what happens in our second Bride & Groom story lights the fuse, our third storyline is where everything in Dick's life is going to explode.
The Nightwing fans care very much for Dick and company, and what I'm hoping to do is not just change the status quo that we've seen 'til now, but make them like what we're doing. For some reason Dick Grayson has always been one of my favorite characters to write. I hope to make him one of the most compelling to read, too. And because the Wingnuts out there are also some of the most verbal fans I've ever met, I know they'll let me know if I succeed or not. Please let me know that, too, right here on Today's Views. Your comments and thoughts are not only welcomed, but solicited.
Labels: Nightwing
posted by Marv @ 10:38 PM
25 Comments
Links to this post
25 Comments:
Thank you Marv for your great respect and love for Nightwing. It really means a lot to hear it from you that you want to write some compelling and interesting stories for him that future generations can enjoy.
I only ask that we continue to explore his characteristics, what make make him unique and different, show that he no longer lives in Bats shadow, develop an interesting supporting cast, fascinating and unique villains and most importantly we "SEE NIGHTWING DOING THINGS NOBODY ELSE IN THE DCU COULD DO."
I want to see him win victoriously against major baddies where others cannot, show off his masterful fighting prowess and martial arts skills that he has spent years honing, his keen detective abilities and intuitive mind that enables him to see and solve the most complex puzzles that nobody else can solve(Who is Donna Troy?) and his abilities to lead, unify, and inspire the rest of the superhero community like no one else!
Those are the traits that make Nightwing the great hero that he is for me. Thanks Marv and I look forward to keep buying ;-)
I second everything m says.
I also really liked this post, for a lot of the same reasons I enjoy introductions in trade paperbacks. The stories stand on their own, certainly, but it's great to get a sense of what you think Dick is about when you're not writing in his voice. I might even go so far as to put in a request for something like this as, I dunno, an annual tradition? State of the Nightwing addresses, if you like.
You'll infer I'm hoping you're planning to stick around for a really long time.
One thing I'd flag, though - I wasn't a huge fan of Bruce Jones' run on Nightwing (no offense to the man), but I did like that he brought Dick's old superintendent, Clancy, in as a recurring character. She really does come across (IMHO) as a non-romantic friend, and she would seem to represent a fairly painless kind of continuity with the very early days of the solo series. Her absence now isn't a critical weakness or anything - hell, as a medical intern you wouldn't even have to work to make the case that she doesn't have time to socialize these days - but I do kinda miss her.
Anyway, I'm excited about the missing year - and, really, I'm more caught up in the series as a whole than I've been in years. Thanks again!
Mr. Wolfman.
I have to admit that these comments do not fill me with much hope. For a long time, Nightwing has been angsty, which has caused him to be percieved as weak, especially among fans. Apparently, ROBIN (Tim Drake) currently has more online "steet cred" than Nightwing. Rather than create new villains, I suggest he go up and DECISIVELY defeat a villain that will make everyone remembember that THIS GUY FOUGHT TRIGON.
SOmeone like BANE. You know, if Nightwing fought and won against the man who broke Batman, you would make a lot of his fans happy.
Funny thing, Matthew, is nobody had heard of Bane before he broke Batman's back. Nobody heard of Deathstroke until we created him for New Teen Titans #2. Nobody heard of Bullseye and Black Cat before I created them, too. So why use someone else's villain qwhen we might be creating the next Deathstroke or Bullseye or Black Cat? If we do the third arc correctly then our new villains will reach the status of Bane and others we remember.
I know a lot of fans want us to use Batman villains even as they say don't have Nightwing be under his shadow. It can't go both ways. I had Dick and Bruce talk in the way they did so we can get beyond ever having to keep him under that shadow. Dick is his own man and I'm hoping the villains we create now will be the ones the next generation of fans tell the next generation of writers, to use because they're the big baddies. If the new villains we create don't make it it won't be because we didn't try.
I think many fans suggest having Dick defeat a villain like Bane, Deathstroke, Lady Shiva, etc. because obviously they are already established and how dangerous/skilled/powerful they are is well known, so its an instant bump up the ladder for Dick, a quick fix. I prefer the idea of him having his own rogues that are designed around him, it gives you the opportunity to highlight his strengths better that way (I'm really looking forward to seeing where you go with Bride and Groom). That said I certainly wouldn't be against having Deathstroke show up sometime, there needs to be some sort of retribution for him destroying Bludhaven. Shrike was a rogue that had potential as well, not sure what his status is at the moment.
Great post by the way Marv, its awesome to see a writer be so open about what they're trying to do with a book, and giving the fans a chance to have some sort of input.
Oh and I second the request to have Clancy back! :)
I completely understand where you are coming from. But part of the reason I asked for Bane wasn't just for Nightwing, for Bane also.
See after his big build up, Bane was sort of put on the sidelines. It's the problem of being a gimmick villain, once he's done what he was created to do, there's not much else you can do with him. As for Bane, although many authors have done some nice stuff with his character, after Knightfall just...exsisted.
Being in Nightwing's Rogue's would actually allow Bane to get out of Batman's shadow himself, as "The Man who Broke the Bat", and thus have a better standing in the DCU. I really don't think he's being used outside of an arc in JSA Classified and Checkmate.
As for Nightwing, I don't think it would put him under Batman's shadow to have a Bat-rogue...or should I say, EX-Bat rogue in his own rouges gallery. Yes he should be out of Batman's shadow, but he should always have a connection to Batman. In fact, beating Bane actually would bring him out of Batman's shadow.
But that's just my opinon. I'm really happy that you're listening to my thoughts.
Hey Matthew,
Go read the latest issue of Checkmate. Bane's not even in the country anymore but he sure is being used.
Hey Marv, Nightwing is one of my favorite characters and I gotta say I'm lovin' your run on the title so far. I'm another vote for more Clancy and if possible, more Oracle in the book.
Lookin' forward to what you've got planned in the future and I can't wait to see what you do with the monitors and the Infinite Crisis resolution.
Bane, Lady Shiva, Deathstroke, or even a new deadly enemy just as long as Nightwing is winning battles desively and proving his masterfull martial arts skills and experience against dangerous/skilled/powerful enemies I think Wing-Nuts will be happy! Just let us SEE NIGHTWING DOING THINGS NOBODY ELSE IN THE DCU COULD DO. Thanks Marv ;-)
I love Nightwing and from reading what you wrote hope to check out more of his stories in the future. I have always thought some people wish for him to be like Batman but at the same time want him to be different. It crosses and I think causes people to be confused at what they want from him as a character.
ven though I mostly buy trades these days I am in a big Nightwing mood of late and have picked up several trades from the past few which came out.
I think many fans suggest having Dick defeat a villain like Bane, Deathstroke, Lady Shiva, etc. because obviously they are already established and how dangerous/skilled/powerful they are is well known, so its an instant bump up the ladder for Dick, a quick fix.
How could Dick Grayson, the first Robin, get any higher up the ladder than he already is? Even with a different name he's an iconic character, a lot of people will read him as long as the stories are stomachable, plenty will read him even when they aren't. Its silly to think he needs to get a bump from a borrowed bad guy. He's high enough already.
How could Dick Grayson, the first Robin, get any higher up the ladder than he already is? Even with a different name he's an iconic character, a lot of people will read him as long as the stories are stomachable, plenty will read him even when they aren't. Its silly to think he needs to get a bump from a borrowed bad guy. He's high enough already.
Well, yeah, but with a twist. He's iconic as a subordinate figure - the second or third window in a triptych with Bruce and Batgirl - and, ironically, I think the solo series has gone some distance toward reinforcing that after the maturing and the separation of the Titans years.
Since the Chuck Dixon days, even in the times when Dick was written as a more or less functioning adult, there was an implicit message in the fact that he kept getting sucked into massive Bat-crossovers so that he could watch Bruce save the day: he's not the guy that gets the big problems solved in the end. Hell, even in his own book, Blockbuster - the definitive big bad of the first decade - was . . . oh, let's say "taken out of the picture in a manner that didn't reflect particularly well on Dick."
`Cause, man, I really don't want to drag my memory back over that storyline.
My point is, for all the history and the cultural weight Dick brings to the table, there have been - and probably always will be - conceptual (and maybe editorial) pressures pushing to keep him defined by his mid-level/nonthreatening-prince-in-waiting place in the Bat-hierarchy. And the last few years, with the relatively unstomachable stories, haven't helped. It's not unreasonable to want a big moment where Dick stands up and demonstrates that he really is the hero of his own damn story.
All of that said, I'd be fairly hesitant to bring in major Bat-villains (though, obviously, this is as close as I come to getting a vote). Whatever the hell Bane is about, his own story arc is tied up with Bruce's, and at this point I'd say Shiva is equally set in opposition to Black Canary. It'd be kind of like - over in Marvel-land - bringing Captain America in to beat on the Kingpin; the story just has to work harder to hit any real meaning if Wilson Fisk isn't glaring at Daredevil. IMHO. If Nightwing's gonna go against big name opponents, I'd personally like them to be less tied down to specific heroes.
[On the other hand: Deathstroke? Nightwing villain. That'll be my opinion to my dying day: from Judas Contract on, Slade has never worked so well as when he and Dick have conflicting agendas. I wouldn't mind seeing Cheshire, either.]
Anyway, Nightwing needs a much deeper rogues' gallery than he's got now. If there are some new heavy hitters in the wings, all the better.
By the way, one thing we've all been missing in talking villains is that Marv actually brought in Luthor - who's about as big-time as you can get without being Darkseid - and to me the latest issue really seemed to suggest that Dick was going to follow the murders of the Raptor team back toward big baldy himself.
Unless I'm reading it wrong.
:-T
Anyway, sorry for all the talkin'. Take care, all!
Hey, Matthew -
Sorry, I blew past your points on Bane without even acknowledging them in my rant - which is a shame, `cause they pretty directly address my "Why I wouldn't use Bane" thesis.
In my defense, it's really early in the morning, and I'm kind of dense even under the best of circumstances.
;-)
Vallen: I already said that about Checkmate. But after Checkmate, where does he go?
djack: Oh, no problem. I'm not offended. But like I said, Bane is kind of...nowhere right now. It's actually a problem I have with DC Comics at this moment: there are these awesome characters that not only aren't being used, but DC would happily like you to forget about their exsistence. And the reason I don't say Slade is because Slade's hasn't been himself lately. Especially after blowing up Bludhaven.
Ragnell: You'd think he's high enough already. But then you see things like this: http://www.myspace.com/lifeisfutility
When you think about it, it sort of shows how badly the character is in the eyes of several fans. Becuase for YEARS of Nightwing's own title, this stuff was ALL TRUE.
Time and time again Nightwing is consistantly ranked as being one of DC's most UNDERRATED characters. For being such a DC icon and with all his skills, natural talents and experience--he should be Bat's equal by now if not MORE instead writers have let his credentials slip.
And I agree I'd love to see him phsycially take out Bane, Deathstroke(I agree thats he's NW's major baddie) or Lady Shiva with nerve strikes and superior skills and would buy 3 issues just to see it ;-) I want NW to be a real threat as a superhero AGAIN!
Anyhow, I'm confident Marv will bring Grayson back up. Here's to hoping...
This sounds great. It is good to have someone on the title who actually cares about the future of the character, rather than just focusing on what could be most shocking for the arc they are currently working on. The OYL arc of Nightwing had completely lost the essence of the character, and I just had to drop the title, but picked it up again when you came back on board. Indeed, we have seen evidence that DC had grown weary of Nightwing, with Dan Didio revealing that they very nearly let him die in Infinite Crisis. It is good to see Nightwing building back up as a character again. I think the last thing you need is to shove in Bain or Deathstroke. As you have pointed out, the title would be much richer in Dick Grayson had friends, and Nightwing had an on again, off again Rogue gallery. Thanks for thinking of the long haul rather then the quick fix.
Dick Grayson has been one of my, if not my, favorite comics characters since I was exposed to comics. And in my humble opinion, noone has ever grasped him like you have Mr. Wolfman. I'm only 19, but I've read almost every issue of each series of New Teen. These comments only further back-up that theory for me. I greatly look forward to your further Nightwing stories
Thanks-Brian
Marv - Will Nightwing ever address his failure to save Bludhaven? Will he seak out justice for all those killed?
I say there should be some kind of "Bludhaven's Revenge" style story where Dick kicks everyones asses like he's Uma in Kill Bill.
Deathstroke, the Society and even Captain Atom.
That would write itself and it's the sort of blatant boost in the asskickery prowess that Nightwing needs as well as chocked full of action/martial arts. Nobody is safe from a pissed off asskicking, Aerial Avenger!
Here's my simple solution: Actually have Nightwing clearly WIN battles! Seriously, its sooo simple its plain stupid but thats the only way to get new fans on the book.
If he still keeps bumbling around and losing fights against every top fighter he faces, he still will never win the respect of the casual comics fan. The only fans he can get and keep are people who already have a strong nostalgic love for him based on the Teen Titans stories of him from their childhoods. No one without a preexisting love for the character is going to pick up the book, see a guy on a 10 year losing streak and think "Wow, this character is so cool!" Instead of thinking of ways him less like Bruce, let's find ways to make him more like Bruce: more like a top fighter, more like a man of confidence, more like a person that strikes fear and awe in his peers.
So yes I third(or 4th) seeing Wing kick some arse of some major baddies and doing tactical and brilliant moves that no other hero could do(yes not even Batman). Only way to bring back Wing to top form otherwise Didio is going to cancel the title.
I second what clem said, there needs to be a story focusing on Nightwing gaining revenge/retribution for what happened with Bludhaven. It doesn't mean Nightwing has to go through the Society one by one and beat them all, but something needs to happen. Perhaps if we could just have hints or small references that Dick is still thinking about it, like we see him close his eyes and see 1 panel of Bludhaven in ruins as Dick is remembering it, or newspaper clippings around his apartment about what happened, so we know its on his mind. It could be an epic story, maybe the defining Nightwing solo arch.
Marv - justice has to be brought to Bludhaven. I hate the fact that DC has wiped it from existence. Like it or not it deserves retribution.
Dick has to face the bringers of it's destruction Slade and Atom mono e mono. Slade was the reason Chemo fell on Bludhaven. And Atom was the reason the rest of it was blown. Throw in the the Father Time, Brotherhood of Evil (just Brain and Mallah), Penguin, and Cassandra Cain you got yourselves an epic story that brings true finale to Bludhaven and makes Nightwing a true hero for making all the villians pay.
At the moment I don't have plans to do an all out Bludhaven revenge story. But Bludhaven won't be forgotten, and Dick will address what had happened there. Trust me on that.
As for winning battles. I can absolutely promise that, too. Like almost immediately.
The funny thing is, Nightwing's already doing a lot of "no one else can" over in Outsiders OYL.
Stare down Superman? Check.
Single-handedly defeat a garrison? Check.
There's always been this weird team dynamic where the bat-character is absolutely mighty in a team book, but the solo title is where all the foibles come out to play.
It's going to be good to see Nightwing return to a stable base with some genuine direction in the solo book.
And, yes, winning once in a while would be really great. I mean, acrobat, understudy to the greatest detective around (no matter how much Dibny is getting pushed as a detective these days), team builder and leader - this guy should be a hero of significant accomplishment and stature, even if he's recovering from the "you're supposed to be dead" blast.
I think the last anonymous poster hit on something unintentionally. Dick generally gets to shine more when he's with the Titans or Outsiders, because as a non-powered character they need to show that he can carry his own weight alongside the real powerhouses (let alone lead them).
As a solo character, the atmosphere chagnes and the threats are naturally going to be on a smaller, more down-to-earth scale. Yet to generate suspense and maintain interest there must be a sense of danger and a feeling that the hero is struggling to overcome the odds. Ergo, he often tends to appear less capable when written on his own.
I'm not saying it has to be this way, and I trust Marv to break that mold, but I think it's understandable why it happens.
On another topic, it's a real shame that DC has turned Deathstroke into a capital-BG Bad Guy. As a mercenary he straddled the line in a very interesting way -- not a hero by any means (at least, not as defined in the DCU), but not evil either. With the guarded respect Dick and Slade had for each other, there was opportunity for some great stories there, where one could and would conceivably call on the other for help in certain situations. Slade might even have come to feel a certain displaced sense of parental protectiveness for Dick after losing Grant and Joey. And there are certainly things Slade could teach Dick that Batman didn't or couldn't (much as Shiva did for Tim). But alas, that was the old Slade and I'm not sure that damage can be undone.
I think that Dick Grayson should finally have the opportunity to find his own place in the world, utilizing the advantages afforded by his affiliation with Bruce Wayne but creating a genuine, realistic life of his own.
Bruce Wayne has billions of dollars but Dick Grayson is a college dropout working as a bartender??? Like the Gotham City tabloid press wouldn't have a field day with a story like that?
How would it appear to the general public if someone like Donald Trump invited underaged boys to share his home and then seemingly turned his back on them when they turned 18?
Two words - Michael Jackson.
Why can't Dick finally reconcile himself to the fact that Bruce Wayne can (and gladly would) give him anything he wanted or needed to fulfill any personal or professional dream he might have ever had?
I'd like to see Dick finally finish school and purchase Haley's Circus and create his own wealth. Kind of like a DCU version of Cirque du Soleil's Guy Laliberte.
Such a position would afford him ample reason to travel internationally to "scout talent" or set up international touring companies while chasing down more realistic criminals all over the world.
Is someone of Dick Grayson's abilities REALLY tested by any of his rogue's gallery? He needs bigger criminals, bigger than Batman, the FBI or the CIA. Why isn't someone as unique as Dick Grayson using his talents to fight global terrorism 24/7?
Owning a circus would give rich opportunities to utilize his superior leadership abilities as he runs a large corporate entertainment company, leads a large international cast of performers (liberally sprinkled with metahumans) and transform the Outsiders into something less akin to a traditional superhero group and something more like an underground James Bond/Nick Fury hybrid.
It seems to me that after everything that Dick Grayson has been through, it's time to finally let him fire on all cylinders and become the character he's always had the potential to be.
Or not, just an idea.
~Pat Cashin
clownalley.net
I'm quite sure Dick does already own Haley's Circus, its just nothing has ever really been done with it, other than Firefly burning it down around issue 88-90ish. I'm sure Dick would/did pay for everything to be rebuilt.
I've always thought it would be cool for Dick to go touring with the circus, taking him to a new city every few issues, it would create an interesting supporting cast and be a great way to show off what he can do, it would be pretty unique too, what other character could go running off with the circus and have it seem completely natural? (The circus could go to Keystone City and we could see Dick pay his last respects to Wally too! I don't think there has been anything said by Nightwing regarding Wally yet.)
Post a Comment
Links to this post:
Create a Link
<< Home